China Post Forum

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: [1]
Author Topic: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
Harvey
Newbie
Posts: 24
Post ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 22, 2015, 16:40
New Topic

Hi,

I've noticed a lot of ChinaPost registered mail shipments do not have tracking status in destination countries (eg. UK, Australia). Trackng status only shows its journey within China but once it's departed, nothing shows up.

Why doesn't it show more info since it's registered?

shadowspar
Pro
Posts: 1633
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 22, 2015, 18:36
New Topic

Short answer: because some postal services are jerks.

Long answer: from a funding perspective, the way international mail works is like this:

  • The sending country collects postage for the item;
  • The sending country delivers the item to the destination country and hands it over to that country's postal service;
  • The destination country delivers the item domestically;
  • The sending country pays the destination country a certain amount for delivering its item.

The fees that the sending country pays the destination country to deliver its items are called Terminal Dues.

Now, Registered Mail is an inexpensive service, and under Universal Postal Union (UPU) rules, the amount of Terminal Dues paid to the destination country is fairly small -- sometimes less than the destination country's cost of delivering the item. When you have an imbalance of shipments, like between China and the US, this can represent the loss of a lot of money for the receiving country.

The UPU rules on Registered Mail are actually very minimal; the only real requirements are that the items are barcoded, the sending post must issue the sender a receipt of mailing, and the destination post must collect a signature or some other evidence of delivery. They don't have to provide tracking updates online, nor do they have to provide the signature to the sender electronically (though they are strongly encouraged to do so).

Most countries post tracking information online, because their internal procedures require them to scan barcoded items anyway. But some countries, seeing the loss they are taking from delivering inbound registered mail, have decided to suppress this information and stick the the "letter of the law" under the UPU rules. Not providing tracking information may save them a tiny bit of money, but really their goal in this is to make people shift their mail from the money-losing Registered Mail stream, to one that makes the receiving post more revenue, like EMS or ePacket.

Harvey
Newbie
Posts: 24
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 23, 2015, 07:08
New Topic

Quote from shadowspar on October 22, 2015, 18:36
Short answer: because some postal services are jerks.

Long answer: from a funding perspective, the way international mail works is like this:

  • The sending country collects postage for the item;
  • The sending country delivers the item to the destination country and hands it over to that country's postal service;
  • The destination country delivers the item domestically;
  • The sending country pays the destination country a certain amount for delivering its item.

The fees that the sending country pays the destination country to deliver its items are called Terminal Dues.

Now, Registered Mail is an inexpensive service, and under Universal Postal Union (UPU) rules, the amount of Terminal Dues paid to the destination country is fairly small -- sometimes less than the destination country's cost of delivering the item. When you have an imbalance of shipments, like between China and the US, this can represent the loss of a lot of money for the receiving country.

The UPU rules on Registered Mail are actually very minimal; the only real requirements are that the items are barcoded, the sending post must issue the sender a receipt of mailing, and the destination post must collect a signature or some other evidence of delivery. They don't have to provide tracking updates online, nor do they have to provide the signature to the sender electronically (though they are strongly encouraged to do so).

Most countries post tracking information online, because their internal procedures require them to scan barcoded items anyway. But some countries, seeing the loss they are taking from delivering inbound registered mail, have decided to suppress this information and stick the the "letter of the law" under the UPU rules. Not providing tracking information may save them a tiny bit of money, but really their goal in this is to make people shift their mail from the money-losing Registered Mail stream, to one that makes the receiving post more revenue, like EMS or ePacket.

@shadowspar Thanks for your very detailed reply.

I've also suspected it could be related to fees/cost issue. I know someone who ships from US with USPS, has very detailed tracking to countries that Chinapost don't.

This ePacket from China seems to cover the countries with insufficient tracking info, don't think it's a coincidence.

My real concern is if tracking info don't show in destination country, is there a way to get more detailed info from the destination's postal service? As a seller, it's really important.

chinapostv-
olunteer
Administrator
Posts: 45845
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 23, 2015, 07:37
New Topic

USPS will scan China Post ePacket (tracking number like L****CN), so you can track China Post ePacket in USPS website. USPS does not scan China Post Register mail (tracking number like R****CN).

So we alway suggest our user to use ePacket instead of register mail to ship parcel to US and the price is only a slightly different between these two services.

Harvey
Newbie
Posts: 24
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 23, 2015, 08:53
New Topic

Quote from chinapostvolunteer on October 23, 2015, 07:37
USPS will scan China Post ePacket (tracking number like L****CN), so you can track China Post ePacket in USPS website. USPS does not scan China Post Register mail (tracking number like R****CN).

So we alway suggest our user to use ePacket instead of register mail to ship parcel to US and the price is only a slightly different between these two services.

Hi chinapostvolunteer,
No complaint about China Epacket to USA that starts with L, the delivery speed and tracking is very good.

For ChinaPost, is there a way to get better tracking info in some destination countries if it's showing nothing or incomplete?

shadowspar
Pro
Posts: 1633
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 23, 2015, 15:57
New Topic

Quote from Harvey on October 23, 2015, 07:08
I've also suspected it could be related to fees/cost issue. I know someone who ships from US with USPS, has very detailed tracking to countries that Chinapost don't.

This ePacket from China seems to cover the countries with insufficient tracking info, don't think it's a coincidence.

You're absolutely right. The way the USPS and other countries have tried to address the terminal dues issue is by setting up bilateral agreements between countries that supplement the UPU agreements...namely, ePacket.

As I understand, ePacket is also available to Canada, UK, Australia, France, and Russia, but unfortunately it is more expensive than to the USA. I seem to remember seeing that the per-piece base charge for the US was around 7-10 RMB, whereas for the other countries it was around 22-25 RMB. This might be different now though; the US negotiated a new ePacket agreement with China effective Oct 1, so the USA price might be higher now.

My real concern is if tracking info don't show in destination country, is there a way to get more detailed info from the destination's postal service? As a seller, it's really important.

There are two other options available. One, when sending, you can pay for an Advice of Delivery card (aka Avis de réception, AR card, CN 07). This is a special postcard that is attached to the outside of your item. When your item is delivered, they have to sign the card before the item is released. The postcard then gets returned to you by ordinary airmail. AIUI, with China Post, this service costs 5 RMB. I've never used it, or heard from anyone who has, so I can't say how well it works. It seems straightforward enough though.

Two, after sending a registered item, if the the receiving country doesn't show any tracking info online, you can open an inquiry with the originating post. (The form used is called a CN 08, which might help if the postal clerk has no idea what you're talking about.)

Most countries exchange inquiry information electronically, but some still only do so by mail. The inquiry process is supposed to get you a definitive response within about a month at longest if done electronically, within about three months if done by mail. In reality many post offices claim that the process can take up to six months, even though the timelines laid out in the UPU Acts are quite a bit shorter. Also, may post offices will refuse to open an inquiry for non-receipt until some long and arbitrary amount of time after mailing has passed, even though the UPU says they are supposed to accept inquiries at any time. I definitely wouldn't recommend routine use of the inquiry process for delivery confirmation.

Harvey
Newbie
Posts: 24
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 27, 2015, 15:11
New Topic

Quote from shadowspar on October 23, 2015, 15:57

My real concern is if tracking info don't show in destination country, is there a way to get more detailed info from the destination's postal service? As a seller, it's really important.

There are two other options available. One, when sending, you can pay for an Advice of Delivery card (aka Avis de réception, AR card, CN 07). This is a special postcard that is attached to the outside of your item. When your item is delivered, they have to sign the card before the item is released. The postcard then gets returned to you by ordinary airmail. AIUI, with China Post, this service costs 5 RMB. I've never used it, or heard from anyone who has, so I can't say how well it works. It seems straightforward enough though.

Two, after sending a registered item, if the the receiving country doesn't show any tracking info online, you can open an inquiry with the originating post. (The form used is called a CN 08, which might help if the postal clerk has no idea what you're talking about.)

Most countries exchange inquiry information electronically, but some still only do so by mail. The inquiry process is supposed to get you a definitive response within about a month at longest if done electronically, within about three months if done by mail. In reality many post offices claim that the process can take up to six months, even though the timelines laid out in the UPU Acts are quite a bit shorter. Also, may post offices will refuse to open an inquiry for non-receipt until some long and arbitrary amount of time after mailing has passed, even though the UPU says they are supposed to accept inquiries at any time. I definitely wouldn't recommend routine use of the inquiry process for delivery confirmation.

The first method seems very interesting. If the mail always return back to sender in China, would be a good seller protection method. However, if the mail takes very long time to return, then it wouldn't be useful in disputes.

So I wonder if you have had experience with other alternative postal service (eg. PostNL, Sing Post, HK Post etc). I'm currently testing with some of them and hopefully they could provide better tracking info in destination countries.

shadowspar
Pro
Posts: 1633
Post Re: ChinaPost Registered Mail-No Tracking In Some Destination Countries
on: October 28, 2015, 04:08
New Topic

Quote from Harvey on October 27, 2015, 15:11
(re: Advice of receipt / Avis de réception / AR card)
The first method seems very interesting. If the mail always return back to sender in China, would be a good seller protection method. However, if the mail takes very long time to return, then it wouldn't be useful in disputes.

The AR card goes back by regular airmail, so it should be returned in the same time it would take an ordinary stamped airmail letter to travel the same route. It will be as fast or faster than registered mail.

So I wonder if you have had experience with other alternative postal service (eg. PostNL, Sing Post, HK Post etc). I'm currently testing with some of them and hopefully they could provide better tracking info in destination countries.

Well...here is the thing. Many (most?) of the countries which don't give tracking info for inbound registered items do this across the board -- it doesn't matter where the item is coming from. Canada is one example of this. It doesn't matter if you send the registered item from China, Cambodia, Cameroon, or Cape Horn, it won't have any tracking in Canada.

On the other hand, the USPS does offer tracking for registered items coming from a select few countries. The complete list is here: http://faq.usps.com/?articleId=1437076354655

Notably missing, along with China, are Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong Kong. However, items sent from Thailand and the Philippines are still tracked in the US, as are items from the Netherlands...so for items to the US, sending them through any of these three postal services might help you out. It sounds like PostNL may be the most accessible of the three when it comes to shipping from China.

Pages: [1]